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Che ne so: Let's take it apart

We see the word che meaning "that" or "which" all the time in sentences. It's a very common conjunction. 

Ad Ercolano, c'è un pomodoro che è diventato simbolo di un'importante voglia di cambiamento.

In Ercolano, there is a tomato that has become a symbol of an important desire for change.

Captions 21-22, Pomodori Vulcanici Pomodori del Vesuvio - Part 7

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But che does more. Here is a lesson about using che to say things with simplicity, a great asset when you're just learning. It helps make conversation. Here, it means "how."

Che carino, Però adesso devo scappare, altrimenti mio fratello mi uccide.

How sweet. But now I have to run, otherwise my brother will kill me.

Caption 29, Il Commissario Manara S2EP9 - L'amica ritrovata - Part 11

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Che can also mean "what." See this lesson

Scusa, ma io che ci faccio qui? Non conto niente.

Sorry, but what am I doing here? I don't count for anything.

Caption 3, Moscati, l'amore che guarisce EP1 - Part 2

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In our featured expression che ne so?, che basically stands for "what." We can often translate che ne so as "What do I know?" Sometimes we might translate it as, "How should I know?" It's often a rhetorical question. 

Nilde, ma che mangia il bambino la mattina? -Ma che ne so?

Nilde, but what does the child eat in the morning? -How should I know?

Captions 2-3, Un medico in famiglia Stagione 3 S3 EP1: Ciao famiglia - Part 3

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We've taken care of che. But what about that little word ne? Ne is a particle, called una particella in Italian, and if we look ne up in the dictionary we see it means several things. But mostly, it encompasses both a preposition and the indirect object pronoun "it" or "them." See this lesson about ne.

 

As mentioned in the lesson, we often don't even notice the word ne because it's so short and because we are not looking for it if we're thinking in English. Once you start thinking in Italian, it will become easier to use and notice. Italians will be very tolerant and understand you anyway, even if you don't use it, so don't worry about it too much. But learning an expression with ne will already make you sound more fluent. 

 

In our expression, ne means "about it." The tricky thing is that we don't bother with "about it" in English, but in Italian, not always, but in general, we will hear that little ne in there. 

Che ne so? What do I know [about it]?

 

Finally, we get to so, which is simply the first person singular of the verb sapere (to know).

 

You might have already learned how to say "I know" and "I don't know" in Italian. Italians add the direct object pronoun lo ("it" or "that").

Sì, lo so (yes I know [that].

Non lo so (I don't know [that]).

 

But che ne so can also be used in the middle of a sentence, as we would use "I don't know." It's a kind of filler phrase. We can leave it out and the meaning doesn't change much. 

perché, diciamo... -comunque devono sostenere il peso. -Devono sostenere il peso, più che altro devono fare, che ne so, la stessa cosa per un'ora.

because, let's say... -anyway they have to support the weight. -They have to support the weight, more than that, they have to, I don't know, do the same thing for an hour.

Captions 50-51, Francesca Cavalli - Part 2

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Ma tu ti devi aggiornare, sarai rimasto sicuramente, che ne so, ai Pooh.

But you have to get up to date. You must have remained, I don't know, at Pooh.

Caption 66, Un medico in famiglia Stagione 1 EP5 Lele, ti presento Irene - Part 2

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Allora, due colleghi decidono di scambiarsi il posto, firmano un modulo, e se non ci sono problemi, ma gravi, eh, tipo, che ne so, uno deve essere sotto inchiesta.

So, two colleagues decide to switch places, they sign a form, and if there are no problems, but serious huh, like, I don't know, one [of them] has to be under investigation.

Captions 38-40, Il Commissario Manara S1EP8 - Morte di un buttero - Part 12

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Dice, chissà se c'ha un lenzuolo da piegare, se ti manca... che ne so? C'è un tubo che perde acqua...

Saying, who knows if she has some sheets to fold, if you're out of... I don't know... There's a pipe that leaks...

Captions 39-40, Il Commissario Manara S2EP8 - Fuori servizio - Part 1

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For more about particles ci and ne, see Daniela's video lessons (in Italian)

In this video, Marika explains the particle ne.

Being in tune (or not) with intonato and stonato

Both words we want to talk about in this lesson have to do with the root word tono (tone). It means pretty much the same thing in both languages.

Ora delle due è una: o mi sta raccontando una balla adesso o mi ha preso in giro sin dall'inizio. Questo tono con me! Si rende conto che questa è insubordinazione?

Now it's one of the two: Either you're bullshitting me now, or you've been giving me the runaround from the beginning. This tone with me! Do you realize that this is insubordination?

Captions 13-16, Il Commissario Manara S1EP8 - Morte di un buttero - Part 12

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We use the words  tono and "tone" a lot in music, too. Un tono is a whole tone or whole step of a scale. In Western music, for example, we have a series of whole tones and semi tones — toni e semitoni — that make up a particular musical scale. 

Remaining in the realm of music, the verb intonare can mean "to start singing." 

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When someone sings the right notes, with accurate relationships between the notes, we can say this person is intonato  or  intonata (in tune). He or she has good intonazione (intonation). 

 

When the opposite happens, when someone is not singing in tune, he is stonato, she is stonata. So once again, we have the S prefix that transforms a word into one with an opposite meaning. If this use of S at the beginning of a word is unfamiliar to you, check out this lesson

 

In the example below, Martino, the guitarist, hears a woman singing onstage. He complains:

Ma quella è stonata.

But she's out of tune.

Caption 4, Chi m'ha visto film - Part 2

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In Italian, we often use the verbs intonare and stonare or their past participles, intonato and stonato in a figurative way, or in referring to colors and designs, anything, really. In the example below, it's used with a reflexive si.

 

La sua maglietta non si intona col mio rossetto e quindi Le metto sette.

Your t-shirt doesn't harmonize with my lipstick, and so I'm giving you a seven.

Caption 92, L'Italia a tavola Interrogazione sulla Liguria

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In this next example, an acquaintance of the famous film directors, the Taviani brothers, is describing how they were and how they worked together. 

Erano sempre, ehm, eleganti, se si può dire la parola usata in maniera e... appunto non manierata, ma in maniera intonata no, sempre intonati, ecco.

They were always, uh, elegant, if one can use the word used in a manner and... just that, not mannered, but in a manner — harmonious, right? Always harmonious, that's it.

Captions 45-49, Fratelli Taviani La passione e l'utopia - Part 8

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In a recent episode of Meraviglie, Alberto Angela uses the verb stonare figuratively, imagining what kind of play could be performed in the piazza of Lecce, a piazza that is reminiscent of a theatrical stage. 

Tutto sembra disposto e ornato per un lieve gioco teatrale. Una commedia di Goldoni non vi stonerebbe.

Everything seems set up and decorated for a lighthearted play. A Goldoni play would not be out of place here.

Captions 9-10, Meraviglie S2 EP3 - Part 7

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So we can use stonare to mean "to clash," "to go together poorly." 

 

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Another noun, stemming from tono, is sintonia, which is used quite a bit in Italian when talking about people who are on the same wavelength, who seem to be in sync. For example, when two people are thinking the same thing at the same time.

Loro due sono in sintonia (Those two are attuned to each other, they're on the same wavelength).

 

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Vocabulary

3 Ways of being a cavallo (on horseback)

There's a great expression in Italian to describe being between two things: cavallo, or rather, essere a cavallo di or tra/fra (to straddle) meaning con un piede da una parte euno dall'altra (with one foot on one side and the other on the other side).

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Di solito, questo stato influenzale, quindi il raffreddore o l'influenza, si prende nel periodo che è a cavallo di due stagioni in particolare.

Usually, this flu-like state, that is, a cold or the flu is caught in the period that straddles two seasons in particular:

Captions 7-8, Marika spiega - Il raffreddore

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The expression is often used figuratively when referring to historical dates: cavallo di due secoli —negli anni finali di un secolo e iniziali del successivo (straddling two centuries: in the last years of one century and the first years of the following one).

 

We also use cavallo to mean touching on two or three places. 

Maratea si trova al sud d'Italia, eh... a cavallo di tre regioni:

Maratea is located in the south of Italy, uh... straddling three regions:

Caption 35, Antonio - Maratea, la carne e il pesce

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But without the proposition di (of) or fra/tra (between), cavallo means something else entirely.

 

Essere a cavallo can mean "to be golden, in good shape." In other words, we're riding horses rather than having to walk, and that's a good achievement.

Ora lo facciamo analizzare e se corrisponde a quello trovato sul mio cuscino, siamo a cavallo.

Now we'll have it analyzed and if it corresponds to the one found on my pillow, we'll be in the saddle [all set].

Captions 11-13, Il Commissario Manara - S2EP3 - Delitto tra le lenzuola - Part 10

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Firmi, ed è fatta. Ah, allora siamo a cavallo, vedi?

Sign, and it's done. Ah, so we're on horseback [we're on our way, we're in good shape], you see?

Captions 42-43, Il Commissario Manara - S1EP8 - Morte di un buttero - Part 12

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Of course, there is the literal meaning as well: andare a cavallo (to go horseback riding).

E a cavallo ci si arriva?

And can you get there on horseback?

Caption 63, L'Italia a tavola - Interrogazione sulla Puglia

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Vocabulary

More Ways to Translate the Imperfetto

In a recent lesson we talked about the imperfetto, a simple past tense that has various ways of being translated into English. In this lesson we’ll discuss more ways we can translate the imperfetto.

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In this gripping film about people trying to live out their lives in the rundown suburb of Scampia, near Naples, a husband and wife are discussing the difficult situation of being threatened by the Camorra almost daily.

 

Che dovevo fare? Dovevo accettare?

What should I have done? Should I have accepted?

Caption 19, L'oro di Scampia - film

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It’s good to know that this is not actually correct Italian. Nevertheless, it’s quite common in colloquial speech to skip complicated structures and use the simple past instead. If, as a foreigner, you know how to use the conditional and the subjunctive, it’s never wrong to say things correctly, just in case. At the same time, it’s essential to understand what someone is talking about. The conditional and past subjunctive need more words and take longer to say, and are complex as well, so more and more, in conversation, people take a shortcut and use the imperfetto.

 

Before reading further, can you put the above questions into correct Italian?

 

Here’s the answer:

Che avrei dovuto fare? Avrei dovuto accettare?

 

What’s needed grammatically is the conditional, but the imperfetto has become an acceptable alternative in casual conversation. This marital discussion was not the time to worry about grammar!

 

Here are two other examples where the imperfetto is used in place of the conditional, which would have been grammatically correct, and in any case necessary in English.

 

Però me la potevi passare, no?

But you could have passed her to me, no?

Caption 84, Il Commissario Manara - S1EP8 - Morte di un buttero - Part 12

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Sai che potevo fare un viaggio per il Brasile?

You know, I could have gone on a trip to Brazil?

Caption 33, Francesca e Marika - Il verbo potere

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Here are the grammatically correct versions:

Però, me l’avresti potuta passare, no?

Sai che avrei potuto fare un viaggio per il Brasile?

 

And here’s still another way to translate the imperfetto! The following example is a classic use of the imperfetto in place of a past subjunctive tense, in this case the trapassato congiuntivo. Again, it’s grammatically incorrect, but lots of people use it. The key word is se (if), which can signal a hypothetical situation and consequently the use of the congiuntivo (subjunctive).

 

Se sapevo che l'era l'ultima volta che lo vedevo...

If I had known that it was the last time I would see him...

Caption 50, Il Commissario Manara - S1EP8 - Morte di un buttero - Part 14

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What makes sentences like this complicated is the presence of se (if) and che (that, what), which both often take the subjunctive and/or the conditional. And there are a good two instances of che!

 

Here’s the more grammatically correct, but rather complex version:

Se avessi saputo che sarebbe stata l’ultima volta che l’avrei visto...

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Mamma mia, it's super complex. Fortunately the imperfetto has become more and more acceptable. For more about the subjunctive and conditional see this lesson

 

Grammar